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Summary
Shanna Moke of Resolutions Counseling & Mediation and Erin Nielsen Ogdahl of Integrative Wellness join Emily to discuss Parent Coordination services in South Dakota.
Parent Coordination (also referenced within the podcast as Parent Coordinators or PC) is a service that is appointed by the court to assist parents in high conflict separations or divorces to make decisions on parenting time schedules and other decisions within the scope of each family’s particular court order. Parent coordinators work to ensure that the best interest of the child are served in cases of separation and divorce. They refer families to resources, provide education on the impact of the parents’ behavior on the child, and uphold the court order when dealing with cases of alleged parental harm.
In this episode, Moke and Nielsen Ogdahl explore the details of Parent Coordination in South Dakota, including the statutes regulating the service, cost of services, frequently asked questions and what parents can expect if they are appointed a Parenting Coordinator in the state of South Dakota.
Full Transcript
EMILY LEARING
Welcome to the Knowledgeable Parent Podcast, where we share tips, research, and resources to help you to make the best decisions for yourself, your children, and your family, as you learn to live your best life as a parent. I’m your host, a South Dakota License Marriage and Family Therapist, a registered play therapist supervisor, and most
EMILY LEARING
Hello and welcome to today’s podcast. I am so excited for today’s episode. Today, I have Shana Moki and Erin Nielsen Ogdahl with me, and we’re going to be discussing parent coordination and custody evaluations.
EMILY LEARING
Welcome ladies. Hello. Hi.
EMILY LEARING
So the reason that I am so excited to have you both on the show today is because there is a lot of confusion that exists in our community about custody and who has the power to do what when parents are in disagreement on their parenting decisions. So I’m really excited that we’re going to be able to have this conversation to help out the parents in the Sioux Falls area and the surrounding areas, just get a better understanding of what each of these services are and where they can turn when these parenting disagreements arise. So I
EMILY LEARING
think to get started today, before we get into the weeds of what is parent coordination, what is the custody evaluation, it would be helpful for our listeners if you both share a little bit about yourself, about your career, and what led you to become a provider of these services. Erin, go ahead and start.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Well, my background is in social work. I have a bachelor’s in a master’s degree in social work, but I always, from an early age, wanted to be an attorney. So once I finished up my master’s degree, I moved back to South Dakota and went to law school.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
I practiced for a couple of years and realized a kind of that heart of a social worker did not work well in some of the attorney work I was doing. So I stumbled across someone who was doing custody evaluations where I was practicing law and did that training and have transitioned into a private practice where I combine these custody related services. I also do some individual therapy, family therapy with individuals with mental health and substance use issues, so kind of bringing it all together at the different backgrounds and
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
EMILY LEARING
Perfect. Thank
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
about you? My background is in human development is what my undergrad and my graduate degree are both in human development and family studies. When I did my master’s program, I focused it in on custody and visitation work up in the
SHANNON MOKI
at family court services in Minneapolis, and I worked there for about seven years where I got some really great training in all aspects of custody and visitation since 2010. My focus on work is in custody evaluations, mediation, parent coordination, I do co-parent education. We oversee the supervise visitation program and drug testing.
SHANNON MOKI
I see myself kind of getting education in areas of mental health, substance abuse, legal areas, in between area because it is such a
SHANNON MOKI
area of work that
SHANNON MOKI
aspects. And so I enjoy consultation and learning that.
EMILY LEARING
Yeah, it definitely sounds like you guys come from a variety of different areas of knowledge basis, so that’s really awesome to hear. Okay, so let’s get started with the topic of parent coordination first. Let’s just talk about what is parent coordination or what is a parenting coordinator. And maybe if you guys can talk about to like how it is different than some of the other services that might be available in the
EMILY LEARING
to
SHANNON MOKI
to start. Sure. Parent coordination is a court order service. It has to be court order parties can stipulate to that, but most parent coordinators will require it to be court ordered because it is statutorily defined in South Dakota statutes, which we are lucky to have. A lot of states don’t have it in
SHANNON MOKI
so it’s very clearly defined in our statutes pretty thoroughly. And so the judge will appoint it and it’s supposed to have a very specific appointment order as far as the duties and the limitations of what they are. But the essence of parent coordinator is to try and help parents resolve issues without having to go
SHANNON MOKI
alleviate that burden on the judge when the judge is there for maybe more of the major issues. And so it may be some of the gray areas in the court order or things that come up that maybe need more of an emergent
SHANNON MOKI
a case worker to appoint where you’re helping this family through things. It’s meant for families that are deemed to be a little more high conflict that require that that can hands on the systems. It’s court ordered, like I said, it’s a very specific role where parent coordinator will facilitate agreements.
SHANNON MOKI
then if they cannot agree, then they can either make a recommendation or a… decision, which is binding on the parties unless or until they go to court to overturn that.
EMILY LEARING
So does a co-parenting team reach out to you whenever they have this conflict if they do get set up with a parenting coordinator? Is it something that you’re checking in with them regularly, ask them how things are going? Are they reach out to you when they’ve come to a
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
I would see it depends on the case. I’m always very clear once I get an order for a new case that we all sit down and meet together as long as there’s no issues of domestic violence or that they can’t be in a room together. I require us all to meet together to go through the agreement, to go through their court order to set some goals for the process.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
And usually at the beginning we’ll tackle those goals so we may meet more often or we may not have to. It really just depends on the case. But for most of my cases, at least they do reach out when there’s an area of conflict.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
For instance, I’ll say let’s set a meeting and march to set the summer schedule or let’s set a meeting in July to set the kids activity schedule. It’s really case dependent on what they need and where the problems lie. Some I hear from 10 times a day, some I don’t hear from for six months.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
So it really just depends. And that’s one of the challenges for me with parent coordination. And Shannon, I have talked about this a lot over the years is you don’t know how many cases to take because sometimes it can be so quiet and then all of a sudden you get slammed and maybe it’s a week you’re already busy. So that so the management of it can be difficult because there isn’t a lot of predictability.
SHANNON MOKI
EMILY LEARING
And how does parent coordination end? Is that something that’s ordered by the judge that the families are able to work things out and they don’t need a parent
EMILY LEARING
SHANNON MOKI
Each of our contracts has a duration of appointment. The mind is two years, some of them differ every two years, I may have them just renew the contract or if they’re done with services. One case I’ve had the entire 10 years I’ve been here. The judge could dismiss or they could dismiss by stipulation if they agree or I could quit. If I don’t see the need for it.
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
I would agree though with the way that Aaron does hers, I do it the same way. I initially meet with them, open a case to get the background, have them put down a retainer is how they do it. And then if or when they need me, then they contact me.
SHANNON MOKI
And so they may need me more often, maybe not. But if they go a period of a year or 18 months without contacting me at that point, I usually do their own Christmas time where I refund the retainer and say, I’m going to close on your case. You don’t need me right now, congrats. You know, no news is good news. Really, if they
SHANNON MOKI
that’s awesome. And so I close down the case and then if they need to come back, we just renew the contract. As far as that appointment, I think always stands in the order that if they ever do need, they need to use a parent coordinator before one of court. So they may come back down the road.
EMILY LEARING
Okay. So Aaron, you alluded to like the schedule being something that people might disagree with. What are some other common disagreements that you guys hear about as parent
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Scheduling is huge. Kids activities are a pretty large one, especially the older kids get. Although our younger kids are more and more involved these days, so that can be challenging to holidays a lot. School decisions come up pretty
EMILY LEARING
When you say like school activities, those sporting events and things like that, is it whether or not to enroll them? Is it financial disagreements? Do they have differing opinions on what is best for the
SPEAKER_03
Is it
SHANNON MOKI
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
It really depends. And I’ll tell people, my husband and I are married and live in the same house and have two kids and have pretty similar ideas of parenting and we disagree on things. So when you’ve gone through a divorce and probably don’t like this person and have very different ideas, there’s going to be a lot of things that come up.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
So it can be everything that you mentioned. It just really depends. Some people have a similar direction. Some people are planning on their child playing college sports where the other one would rather
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
in music. It can be as far apart as possible or it can be pretty similar what team are we going to sign up for. So there’s really no predictability when it comes to parent coordination in my world.
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
I’d say exorcricular is one area that seems to be overlooked in court order sometimes. And so as far as who registers that they have to notify each other, that they should talk with each other prior to registering. If you’re going to register an activity on the other parent’s time and it’s going to impact their time of the child, they need to be aware of that and willing to participate otherwise the child will make those two 50% of the events.
SHANNON MOKI
And so the importance of being on the same page was supporting activities and making sure everybody’s involved. It does come down to finances sometimes because they’re now living in a single parent household where the finances are lower but travel with certain activities they can’t go out of state every weekend and get hotel rooms and so some of those get to be difficult also with extra quick activities that I see a lot are relocation or families that live a distance apart and whether they’re able to get to those practices or or
SHANNON MOKI
if there’s a lot. the summer months if they’re able to go to the camps that they want to and share trying to coordinate how that happens without it harming the child’s interests. There’s been times where children have said I’m going to give up my activities because it’s too big of a
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
dad and so activities seem to be a big area outside of what you’ve mentioned I would say religious disputes sometimes comes up and even if the order is very very clear you may have a birthday that falls on a holiday or a funeral or a wedding or a vacation and trying to figure out what trumps what and whether or not a dance notice took place and tried to differentiate how those things are going to go are are goal-reliest to minimize the amount of conflict and to be proactive and solution-focused.
SHANNON MOKI
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
financials Emily and I think that and I don’t remember specifically in our parent coordinator statue I know Minnesota is very specific saying that financials are not something that a parent coordinator is
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Is a general rule I try to avoid that because most of it’s decided which child support in that in that lane so a lot of times I’ll avoid that once in a while I say if you both agree and it’s within the order or vaguely within the order if you both agree and want me to make this decision we can take a look at it but financials are something that more than not I try to avoid. Sure
EMILY LEARING
there are some areas that might not be a little bit off limits then yes depends on the the family or the parents okay yes
SHANNON MOKI
yes and that is that’s also my philosophy is if it’s already defined in the court order we essentially want to uphold and reaffirm the court order also when it comes to us making a decision the court order takes precedence over anything else their specific court order takes precedence so if I need to make a decision I’m going to base it on their court order and then base it on the South Dakota parenting guidelines as number two and then what their input is or what they’ve done in the past or maybe how other states do it
SHANNON MOKI
as the third if there’s kind of a lot a lot of hierarchy there the South Dakota statutes it’s statute 25-4-70 that actually very clearly defines the duties of a parent coordinator okay so it specifically says what we can do as far as assisting with co-parent dean it’s not just facilitated agreements and it’s not just making decisions it’s really trying to help them co-parent find ways we can recommend therapy we can recommend what we think they should go through if it’s co-parenting classes it’s really it even says to exclude attorneys as much as possible we’re really
SHANNON MOKI
there to just work with the parties okay I’m trying to help them
SHANNON MOKI
lot of times through our family wizard or email I tend to monitor a lot of communication sure you do as well we monitor we interject when we see that it’s inappropriate we can guide them on ways of improving communication and conflict resolution sure can you
SHANNON MOKI
EMILY LEARING
a little bit about what our family wizard is because I think there are some people who would not know what that is who we’re listening our
SHANNON MOKI
wizard started about 2003 up in Minneapolis and I’ve seen it get better and better each year they do amazing trainings they’re very invested in helping parents that live in two separate homes have more of a business like approach of raising their child so it’s a really neat system that I’ve seen the quirks kind of get worked out over time where it has a message function it has a calendar function where they can each put in proposals for exchange days or all activities doctors appointments and then there’s an info bank where they can put in insurance
SHANNON MOKI
information medical information babysitter information there’s also now OFW pay where they can reimburse each other through the system or
SHANNON MOKI
or a moment section where they can put uploads of maybe artwork or paper work and things that they can put in there so it’s a very a very
SHANNON MOKI
for parents to communicate a really neat portion of it is that you can see when the other parent logged in last you can see when they’ve read your message or if they have not
SHANNON MOKI
really nice if people are ignoring you or if they just really haven’t seen it and so it
SHANNON MOKI
focused as well to be able to print it it does have the ability to add professionals for free it’s a paid service a little over a hundred years ago yeah but you can have professionals that can oversee that’s a free thing and then you can also add a child to log in to be able to see the calendar which I think is important for the child to see what’s going on in their life it’s not really moms or dads calendars which are theirs okay
SHANNON MOKI
over a hundred years ago
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
SPEAKER_03
ago
SHANNON MOKI
in their life
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
would say I don’t use it a ton I would say it’s a great service for certain cases yeah very cases where we know professionals are going to need to be monitoring. Maybe a case like Shana mentioned where one party has a history of not responding or saying they responded. So again, it shows that timestamp of logins so that you can track that.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
the system, whether it’s our family wizard or through email, a lot of times, especially in a custody evaluation when I’m making recommendations and then as a parent coordinator, I’ll say text messaging is clearly not working. Yeah. We can’t read the mood.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
can’t. It’s so fast that nobody takes that pause before they hit send. So whether, like I said, whether it’s our family wizard or email or different platform, being able to slow that down and have something that’s more formal, I guess, is usually a recommendation that I would
EMILY LEARING
make. Okay. So it might not be for all families, but it’s a good fit when when those situations have happened. Yes.
SHANNON MOKI
say I typically recommend like a
SHANNON MOKI
A and B forms of communication. So A might be our family wizard. Do that first or email.
SHANNON MOKI
And then if it’s a secondary form, if it needs to be a response immediately, then do utilize text or then to utilize phone. If you have individuals that can’t speak on the phone that are very impulsive, the text messages or that send a multitude of messages a day where it overwhelms the other person, you really have to think about what method is appropriate. And like we said, every case is so different.
SHANNON MOKI
we really have to be creative in this role on what’s going to work for this family. A benefit that I see when parents are getting overwhelmed with a lot of communication is that our family wizard will send you a message via email or via text and it will say there’s a message there for you. Okay. But I always recommend parents wait till your kids are in bed and tell you’re in the right mindset to sit down and read it and respond. You’re better than reacting. Yes. Absolutely. Which
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
You’re better
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
is probably one of the biggest challenges with mere coordination. I think is that I kind of describe it as the over communicator or the reactive and then the more withdrawn or the one who avoids. And it seems like they’re often in these conflicts together. So it’s slowing one down and kind of speeding the other one up to somewhere and meet in some sort of middle road. As I
EMILY LEARING
to you guys talk to them kind of hearing this trend of every case is going to be different. So there might be I’ve heard people say like it doesn’t seem to make sense. Like there’s these two different I can hear two different stories and two completely different situations with different rulings that are being provided.
EMILY LEARING
maybe that makes sense. Like you guys are looking at what what does the court order say first and South Dakota parenting guidelines, which South Dakota parenting guidelines is consistent assuming kids are of the same age. But then you guys weigh in based on that. So it’s not like she and I decide I don’t like this person. I can just make whatever decision I want. Like there’s rules for you and what you need to be looking at first. And so that might change your decisions in your role from from clients to
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Definitely. I would say that my broken record statement in parent coordination cases is it’s not within the court order. I mean people are constantly asking for changes that are outside of the order.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
maybe it doesn’t make sense because sometimes court orders don’t make sense. But that’s what we have to work off of. And I can’t go beyond that. So if you want to change that then we have to look at a different route. But we can only work within the court order. And then really the kids are our bosses in these cases. We’re working for their
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
But
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Do we talk to them in every case? No. At least I don’t. But though it’s their interest. So one parent A may have one opinion parent B may have another. If that’s not the best interest of the kids, then it’s not going to work. We have to look for C.
EMILY LEARING
Sure. How do you determine what is best interest of the kids? Especially if you don’t get to meet them. Are there other people that you talk to or how do you gather that
SHANNON MOKI
Yeah. I’m in the same position as her is I actually try not to over involve myself with the children because I would have such infrequent contact with them that I wouldn’t expect to build a good rapport. You know, or I don’t want them to have to meet another professional if they already have a therapist or if they have other people that they’ve met.
SHANNON MOKI
as a parent coordinator we would reach out to the school or the therapist or whoever it is that we could gather that information from in order to get that. If we need to make a decision regarding what’s best, I try to make it a very solid decision because we may have to go to court to defend it. And so it can’t just be based on whether we like a parent. I
SHANNON MOKI
as tell parents like it doesn’t matter if I like your not. I mean I’m going to have to testify to support this and it has to be in the best interest of your child. And so we we really look at all aspects of the child in the situation. I
SHANNON MOKI
I mean as
SHANNON MOKI
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
majority of the cases that get to PC level, the kids are already in some level of their B-shirt and if they’re not and then making sure it’s at their best that it’s willing to talk with me and consult and then, you know, base things off of that.
SHANNON MOKI
EMILY LEARING
That makes sense. Okay.
SHANNON MOKI
a pretty quick recognition that I will make. feel like a big part of our job is providing referrals and resources. So it’s important for us to know what is available in the community and to help whether it’s people, whether it’s books, whether it’s services that are out there for families to gain that information, because the families we work with absolutely love their children.
SHANNON MOKI
They’re just going through a very difficult time, whether it’s the emotions from the residual effects of the divorce, whether they don’t like each other, or, you know, they’re just going through the grief and loss of healing and starting new. And so they love their children. Sometimes they just don’t understand the impact of their behaviors on the kids, or they’re too wrapped up in their own emotions, that they’re not seeing it from the kids perspective. Sure. And so we just try to educate on that as well.
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
kids, or
SHANNON MOKI
EMILY LEARING
I imagine that you guys have worked in cases where maybe one parent thinks that the other parent is doing something really damaging to the child is causing them harm, trying to destroy their relationship. Is that something that you guys have experienced in your work? Yes.
EMILY LEARING
And I can see why your face is happening. There is. Yes. So to assume that sometimes parents are coming in with this anxiety, if I don’t want to give this power to this parent coordinator, if I think my ex partner is dangerous, that there’s going to be some hesitancy on there and to agree to that, what do you guys talk about with them to help them to feel comfortable with this
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
your face is happening. There is.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
And again, I would go back to the court order and say, if the judge, or maybe you’ve even agreed to this, or if a judge has made a ruling that this parent is to have this time, without an active CPS investigation or something major that’s happened, we have to uphold the court order in that person’s visitation. So it may be managing your own stress and anxiety, getting your own therapist, doing your own work to manage while it’s going on and supporting your child, without putting your fears onto the child. And sometimes it is coaching the
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
other parent and getting them some skills, because that certainly happens. But if that order is that they’re getting certain set parenting time, then that’s what’s going to
SHANNON MOKI
EMILY LEARING
not you being a cold, unfeeling person. That’s you recognizing the limitations of what the statute says you’re allowed to do as a parenting coordinator.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
and we can’t go off of your opinion and your allegations, because that’s, I mean, the order is what the order is. And most of these cases, it’s been litigated. They’ve been in front of a judge. They’ve had their time to make their case and the judge, this is what the judge is
SPEAKER_03
SHANNON MOKI
them that, you know, I think it’s hard because some people don’t know what the process is, or maybe even their attorney didn’t tell them what the limitations are. And so they may come in with an abundance of information trying to change custody. And it’s for us to say, this isn’t the realm to do that. I want to hear your concerns. But if it’s things that have already been presented or
SHANNON MOKI
are.
SHANNON MOKI
let’s look at today and go forward. You know, how does that help us with what
SHANNON MOKI
off cold sometimes to people, but it’s, you know, it opens up a can of worms from the past that isn’t necessary. Because this is where we’re at. We can’t change that.
SHANNON MOKI
And I’ve told people, if you do think that there’s safety issues, call child protection or tell me those, you know, we are mandated reporters that there are major safety issues. Or if you do want to change a custody to go through the court system and get a custody evaluation or file a motion for a change of custody. But this isn’t the realm to do it.
SHANNON MOKI
I think that’s sometimes hard for people. They can sure propose a change in the schedule just yesterday. You know, you, with people, they agree to 50 50, but they wanted to one party wanted to modify the schedule. It’s okay. We can talk about it. You guys can agree to anything outside of the court order, but I can’t change it. I can’t. Okay. But if they want to agree as long as it remains 50 50 and they want to try a different schedule, that’s okay. We can talk about that and, you know, or sometimes the court
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
two when they divorce and now the child’s 14, things maybe are different. And so the court order might not be as applicable. Sure. And so they can make those agreements and we can memorialize those agreements that if they want to modify things, that’s okay. And so it is working through some of those changes to where, in
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
And so
SHANNON MOKI
others or the kids are now driving or, you know, just different issues that come up. Just developmental differences with the kids as they grow. So there’s things that when people go through divorce, they don’t think about it’s going to come up 10 years down. Of course.
SHANNON MOKI
with the kids as they grow. So there’s things that when
EMILY LEARING
Absolutely. Okay. So there were two questions that I have from that. One, just making sure I clarify this. So if a parent says, you know, I’d really like to start the conversation of transitioning from our current custody agreement to 50 50. That is not apparent coordinators rule. I mean, they can, they can, if both agree to it, they can. They can, you said memorialize that. That’s my second question. Does that mean just like put it in writing?
SHANNON MOKI
Yes. We can definitely talk about any proposals They say, you know, this current schedule isn’t working. Good, bad or otherwise, I’ve seen parents step down and say, you know, I think they need to be at one house more than the other, you know, and really put their kid first. I mean, I’ve seen or they say, you know, what? Yeah, let’s, let’s move towards 50 50. They can do trial periods and it’s kind of a nice, a nice area to say, um, you
SHANNON MOKI
have. doing a two to three. Let’s try a 50. Let’s try every other week. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. Well, sure, you know, it’s a good environment to explore what would work best or say if a child has activities on every Thursday night, maybe you need to change the overnight to a Tuesday night instead. You know, and as long as they agree, both agree, they have power over the quarter. Or if they also
EMILY LEARING
If it
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
SHANNON MOKI
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Okay. I would say that those are probably the minority in the cases that we see that people are functioning that well together. That’s perfect world.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Like when I went into this job, I’m like, oh, this would be so great. We can come up with agreements and avoid the legal system. Nah, it doesn’t really happen all that often.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
It makes us happy in this role when it does. But more often than not, it’s one side saying this isn’t working and continually kind of trying to force the change. And sometimes it comes to the point where I say, this is not PC anymore. This is you trying to modify or you trying to do this, you’re going to have to step out of PC and go back to court. To court out. Okay. So. Okay.
SHANNON MOKI
SPEAKER_03
that well together.
SPEAKER_03
EMILY LEARING
Okay. So one here that says, I really want 50, 50, no, there says no way I’m not on board. It is a court situation. It’s a custody eval or something like that. Yeah. In order to make that formal change. Yeah. In the court order.
SHANNON MOKI
one party is opposed to it, then we really can’t discuss. You know, I mean, it’s there’s no purpose in going through that in our role. No, it’s not our
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
it’s not our role to encourage one party to give in or to. Right. Then to that. The other thing I wanted to mention going back to if one party has fears or concerns, that’s a great motivator to get that child into therapy if they’re not already. Yeah. You know, if you have this series of concerns about what’s happening at the other home, then let’s get a professional involved to represent the child’s interest even more.
SPEAKER_03
SHANNON MOKI
Then
SPEAKER_03
SHANNON MOKI
You
EMILY LEARING
And you know, just from my perspective as a therapist, something that I think parents come in with confusion on, especially if they have been referred by either one of you or somebody else who does a similar role, is they’re like, okay, Emily will make that decision. And so it’s always really important for parents to understand that I’m here to help you to understand your child and to help you to help them as they transition between households and things like that. But I also won’t be that person that’s able to make that decision and say yes,
EMILY LEARING
this person’s unsafe or this person’s not fit to be a parent like the other parent might think. So I know it’s a confusing, confusing place for people.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
is. I think again, going back outside of South Dakota, some states are so specific and careful about what therapists can do and have that, whether it through the licensing board or state statutes, South Dakota is a little less formal, I think in that. For the most part therapists, again, stay in their lane, but everyone’s smell you’ll have one who does kind of make recommendations to represent things and we have to go back and say, yeah, that’s not really their role.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
In reminding people that education piece again, because this is totally new and foreign to most people. A lot of providing education by us and by therapists and whoever’s involved.
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
it’s for the, it’s the best for everyone because we want the therapist to be there for the child and to not take sides with the parents. Right. You know, we want them to be that very neutral, safe spot for the kids.
SHANNON MOKI
And so when I do request records or to contact a therapist, you know, the notes are great, but I never expect to get that even a treatment summary or just a form consultation because that’s a, I actually had like a safe harbor part of my contract that says, if I talk to the child’s therapist, I don’t have to tell appearance everything because I want to protect that relation with the child and the therapist because that’s important and they need that safe spot because they’re going through a
SHANNON MOKI
the parental
SHANNON MOKI
yeah, our main goal, I mean, research shows the longer duration high conflict families are, that’s what has the biggest impact on the kids. Absolutely. Not the divorce, it’s not the schedule, it’s not the age of the kids. It is the parental ability to communicate and cooperate. So their co-parenting relationship is, is very important. It’s super important. Yes,
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
I think even going off that with therapy for themselves, I often say, I don’t look at that as a negative. I look at that as a positive when you’re seeing somebody. And I also rarely, there’s a few agencies in the area that only will give records.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
But for the most part, I say, I’m not going to request records, I want a conversation with your therapist with the basics. Don’t feel like every word you say is going to be communicated to me. It’s more for you to get skills or you to get the support that you need and the same for the kids. I never want to put therapists in a bad spot. I want to keep that relationship open and neutral as possible because that’s not the purpose
SPEAKER_03
EMILY LEARING
We appreciate it. So thank you very much. Now that’s a hard part especially when it comes to the kids, the kids have this fear of, well who are you going to tell if I, if I ask them a question about how they feel about something because they usually try to include them as much as I can to say, hey, there are people who are helping your parents to make some decisions and they want to know what your opinion is.
EMILY LEARING
talk about it a little bit. Their first thing is like, I don’t want you to tell them everything that I’ve said, you know, one of you already told them like they get scared and that just ruins the therapeutic relationship if they think that everything that they’re sharing going forward is going to be shared with their parents. That’s a big thing is making sure their parents don’t hear what they have to say. So I appreciate that you both have those policies within your practices to make sure that you’re using the information to make the right suggestions or recommendations, but not just relaying it
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Yeah, and I’m very clear when I talk with kids, it’s different depending on their age, obviously, it’s not you can’t do this with the two or three year olds, but the older kids and most of them, whether it’s PC or custody evaluation, most of them, like I said, have already been in therapy. So I’ll say, you know, this is different than therapy, what I what you tell me does have to go into my report, we’ll be seen by mom and dad. So if there’s things you don’t want or you don’t feel comfortable.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
I really try to distinguish that for them and say, you know, this is not your job to make decisions or tell anybody what you want. I just want to feel here kind of what what you like about your child. So what works and what doesn’t work. So really trying to keep them to out of that decision making role or put any more pressure on kids and they already have in these situations. Sure,
SHANNON MOKI
I would say that’s one of my biggest things in this work is that I feel kids are giving too much power or parents are relying too much on what their kids think, which I
SHANNON MOKI
the kids are coming from and I absolutely want to know what they think and why they think that. But I don’t want them to feel like they have to make the decision or that they get to make the decision because
SHANNON MOKI
aspects of the situation. Just brain development wise, you know, even if they’re a teenager or different ages or stages of development,
SHANNON MOKI
fully capable of making that decision and they don’t understand how it’s going to impact their relationships long-term. And so some kids have absolutely wonderful reasons why they want what they want and they’re willing to express themselves well and that could be even little kids. And some kids don’t.
SHANNON MOKI
kids just, you know, are manipulated by one parent or say, well, this parent’s going to buy me a car or this parent, you know, and so getting to the underlying reason is important. But I also view it as the child is like
SHANNON MOKI
the puzzle, but there’s a lot of other puzzles pieces. And so I absolutely want to know what they think. My philosophy is voice but not choice because I don’t want them to feel like they have to or that they get to. It’s a heavy weight. It is. And even if they think that I want to make this decision, I would say when your kids 40, they might look back and say, wow, why did I make that decision? So I don’t think it’s fair to put that on
EMILY LEARING
to. It’s a
SHANNON MOKI
EMILY LEARING
I would agree. And you know, something you guys mentioned earlier is there’s this emotion you mentioned Aaron, that like you and your husband might disagree on decisions and then same for me. I mean, I usually try to share that example with my clients too, as parents do not always get a lot of an agree about what to do. So
EMILY LEARING
have to figure out how to make that decision. So when you’re separated, there’s high emotions involved. So kid might come home from school and say, you know, Johnny would mean to me and they’ll be like, well, what happened?
EMILY LEARING
They’ll talk through it. Like, what do you want to do? And then if they come home and say, that was mean to it.
EMILY LEARING
that’s not supposed to mean to you. And like, there’s that’s the emotional piece of what happened historically between them and that relationship that leads to them giving that more of that power to their child to make those decisions. And so I do appreciate that you can give that reminder that kids should have that voice, but the adult are the ones who have to make those decisions and carry that heavy weight.
EMILY LEARING
me, it’s hard when I get asked by an attorney or if I’ve had to testify for a judge or anything like that, like, that’s a really heavy emotional weight to carry. And I have a lot of education. I have a lot of experience. So if I think about a six-year-old or seven-year-old being asked a similar question, that’s so much for them. That’s really awesome that you have those policies in place. And
SHANNON MOKI
are two parents that they absolutely love. It’s yeah, part of them. And they want kids just are generally they want to please their parents. They don’t want to upset them. And every kid is at different stages. I think the hardest age that I deal with is like the seven to 12-year-olds because they stuff a lot of the feelings. They don’t want to cause waves. They don’t want. They’re not
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
incredibly intelligent, but they don’t feel like their voice matters because they’re not yet teenagers, you know. So I think that their way of handling things, it’s really tough. And I think therapy is absolutely a benefit whether it’s for parents or kids. I
SHANNON MOKI
they’re still that stigma out there that it’s going to be against them or that it’s a bad thing, but it’s not. I mean, it’s normal to have adjustment-related issues for kids, or it’s normal for parents to struggle after divorce because it’s a huge transition. It’s part of that process.
SHANNON MOKI
and I think honesty and being willing to address that with the parents and, you know, that for them to just kind of have that insight with, you know, I need better direction. I’m letting my emotions take over, or, you know, just to seek out additional help. I see as a huge positive for parents to start with a
EMILY LEARING
for
SHANNON MOKI
for
SHANNON MOKI
EMILY LEARING
negative. Absolutely. So, getting into more of the logistics of the parent coordination, you said earlier, like, there’s a retainer. So, it is independent, like, each of you have your own prices, or is this something that, like, the state says that this is what the cost is for everybody who wants to engage in
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
I believe we each have our own agreements and set prices, and we’ll consult, especially at Shanna and I, but, you know, we’ll check in with other people and see what everybody’s doing, or go to conferences and talk to people or listen to people from other states who some states have very specific detailed processes, some states have nothing. So, I mean, learning from other people and then figuring that out, but always being clear, you know, upfront in that agreement.
SHANNON MOKI
quarter defines how the fee is split, whether one parent needs to pay or whether it’s 50, 50 or 60, 40, and then when they come to us with the court order, we draft our agreement, we send that out to initiate the case, we have them pay that retainer, so it’s there when they need it, so they don’t have to come up with that money down the road, whenever if there’s
SHANNON MOKI
contracts, I think that all of us have are quite clear, because it is such a confusing role, especially if the court order, sometimes the court order just says this person is appointed as parent
SHANNON MOKI
means. And so we really try to make them know, because even if they have an attorney that doesn’t practice family law, the attorney might not know what parent coordination is.
SHANNON MOKI
I said, it was just 2013 when it made it into the statutes. It’s been used prior to that, but there’s still kind of an idea where some people don’t know what it is, or therapists don’t know what it is, or it’s not therapy. We do have to make decisions, you know, we have to provide direction.
SHANNON MOKI
It’s not confidential. That’s a big piece of parent coordination is that we can testify. Everything they tell us isn’t our file.
SHANNON MOKI
appointed by the court. So it’s not a confidential process in that regard, and we can report back to the court with whether they’re participating or not, or how they’re acting, I guess, if it comes up to trial or home study or something, we can report back. The one thing I wanted to differentiate is mediation.
SHANNON MOKI
even had attorneys call it mediation, and they’ve even put it in an order as a mediation, but they actually want parent coordination. I said, those are very, very different in South Dakota statute. They’re defined very, very different. So mediation is
SHANNON MOKI
a retainer down. They just pay as they go, at least for mine. And there’s several people. The state website has a whole list of approved mediators and parent coordinators, but mediation is confidential, which means if they ever go to court, I cannot
SHANNON MOKI
that’s admissible, it’s similar to a settlement negotiations between attorneys where it’s not admissible if you go to trial. So the only thing that is admissible is the memo. If yes, they met and they did reach an agreement, or yes, they met and they did not reach an agreement. There’s been times that I’ve had to testify, and all I can say is yes, they met. Yes, this is their agreement. Okay, but I can’t say anything about what was talked about. It was discussed. Okay, so mediation is different in that regard. I
EMILY LEARING
you clarifying that, because that is an unknown thing. I would imagine
SHANNON MOKI
may just seem really minor to them or the attorneys and the language, but if it does go to court, that’s a very
EMILY LEARING
difference. I think people think about mediation being like, we’re just going to help facilitate this conversation, and it might even be used in the right like a legal sense. Yes, at
SHANNON MOKI
mediation, we can’t make decisions. We can say this is what other families have done. We can try and brainstorm, and yeah, we really do try to help them resolve it, but there’s that limitation of, well, you guys can’t agree. You’re going to have to go to court with parent
SHANNON MOKI
more ability to make recommendations or decisions, and when it does go to court, if they do have 14 days, if we make a formal recommendation or decision, they have 14 days to file a motion to ask the court to overturn it. If they think that they just
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
okay, which is okay. You know, that’s we all need some oversight. And so if it goes to court, we testify and we explain the reasoning for our decision. So
EMILY LEARING
the only way that it can be like not the order or the recommendation that you made that the only way to not comply with that is to file a stipulation and go back to court and let the judge hear why you made your decision and the judge rules on if your decision is going to be upheld or a different one. Correct. Okay, I think
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
I think one of the biggest restorations I have with the PC process and that certain clients will have as well is it’s… hard to have those consequences. In Oshana and I have talked about this over the years and other professionals too. Like if somebody isn’t following a directive or a recommendation, what do we do with that? Other than reporting it back to the court, it’s not like we can put them in jail. You know, like it’s not, we don’t have the authority to find
SHANNON MOKI
You know,
SHANNON MOKI
it’s not,
SHANNON MOKI
in contempt. Yeah, you
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Yeah, you know, our options are limited. Sometimes it’s financial, but that only goes so far too. And there’s nothing that’s gonna force them to, you know, that’s kind of one of the frustrations with this system, I guess, is sometimes, I’ll hear from somebody, okay, well, she’s not doing this, what are you gonna do about it?
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
I’m like, ugh, I don’t know. You know, thinking in my head like, what do I have to use? So that can get frustrating. It doesn’t come up a ton, I don’t think. Usually we can work through it and people respect the directive or the order, or like she’s gonna explain the process of going back to court, but everyone’s small back can be a
SHANNON MOKI
like kind of other services too, sometimes what one person do with control is just quit paying, so then they think that you’ll quit working. But if there’s a decision that needs to be made, and they say, well, I understand your pay, so then you can’t make the decision. In my contract, it says, the other party can pay that money and still participate, and I can still continue.
SHANNON MOKI
And I’ve scheduled appointments, and I’ve said both of you need to come. And if one chooses not to come, and chooses not to provide their input, I can still make the decision. So just by them saying, I’m not coming, I’m not gonna participate, that doesn’t stop the process. And I think that can be frustrating. They use that as a form of control sometimes. Sure. And if there’s a decision that
SHANNON MOKI
can’t just stop for that. Right. But I think it can be very costly. That’s a downfall, and I know we’re both very sensitive with that. I don’t wanna niggle and dime people. I don’t want them contacting me 100 times a day. I want them to be able to only reach out when they need us. And so money is a good motivator for most people too, that you don’t wanna have to pay us to listen to these. Please reach out when you need us, and then we’ll schedule a
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
a day. I want
SHANNON MOKI
Yeah, my philosophy is just keep us in your pocket. Use me to be able to make me, maybe wait until you have a couple agenda items to discuss, and then order of importance. We’ll talk about those when you come in.
SHANNON MOKI
I just tell people to bring an agenda with proposals on each area, so we’re focused on solutions instead of focused on the problems. But it can be really frustrating for people because sometimes it doesn’t open a can of worms. That doesn’t even need to be like a galley yesterday said, are we creating a, are we trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn’t even exist? Sure. And I thought that really hit home, like sometimes people just bring things up to vent. Mm-hmm. But what are we supposed to do about it? Yeah, you know, what
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
What is the situation? I think. You know, somebody brings something up. Well, I’m gonna- No, I have to go with something. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think two things about the fees, yes, it can be expensive, but it’s a lot cheaper than being in the court system, paying a attorney, paying for a trial certainly. And then also everyone’s want people ask if their insurance will cover it, and that does not because it’s not a therapeutic service. Yeah, so I wanted to be clear on
SHANNON MOKI
No, I have to go with something. Yeah,
EMILY LEARING
Yeah, that can be confusing for people for sure. And Shannon, you mentioned that there might be an order that says the point this parent coordinator, is that how it typically goes, or do parents also have a choice to say, once it’s stipulated, we’re gonna choose who we
SHANNON MOKI
Yes, the parents usually can tell their attorneys if they agree upon a certain person, maybe because of fees or the background or whatever it is, maybe their availability or just if they’re more comfortable. I always encourage people to call around and see personalities who they’re comfortable with. Some people want a male, some people want a female, some people want somebody with a legal background, there’s people with legal backgrounds, there’s people with therapy backgrounds, you know, also finding which person that they feel comfortable working with.
SHANNON MOKI
And typically it’ll say if the parties cannot agree, then they shall submit a few names to the judge and the judge will decide.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
And most people who do a lot of family, a lot of attorneys know us and know what everybody has to offer. The main problem is there’s not enough of us to go around. And we can only take so many of these cases, like I explained before the time commitment is tough, especially with the unknown. So there comes times when all of us are full or can’t take anymore. So that’s the challenge is that there’s just not enough of us to go around, I
SHANNON MOKI
I would say in the entire state, there’s less than 15 of us. And we try to consult, I try to consult and get resources from others across the state. And we definitely are not competitive with each other. We want to learn from each other. But also, I think in bigger cities, if there’s a case where one parent says something that hurts your feelings, people just jump off the case right away because there’s other parent
SHANNON MOKI
It’s hard, it’s hard work and people don’t. I guess a lot, but we’re here for the kids, and we know that that’s what we’re in for, and we do try to tough it out as much as we can. We can’t just jump ship, because we know that there may not be somebody else that’s willing to take the case with the case load. So I do think that all of us, all of us parent quarters that I’ve met that talk to a really work hard and want the best. It’s not an easy type of work. So I think that people are in it are really invested in helping families and
SHANNON MOKI
lot,
EMILY LEARING
So if there was somebody who’s listening right now who says, I think that this sounds like a great idea. I would like to become one of these professionals. What do they do? What is the training that’s required for
EMILY LEARING
SHANNON MOKI
Absolutely. On the state website through
SHANNON MOKI
Dakota codify lodge, there is an application that’s out there. It is under chapter 25,
SHANNON MOKI
of them in like 60 to 70, but the actual application is out there. And you have to apply the minimum is having a master’s degree, having a specified experience in mediation background, having some family legal family law knowledge, and then shadowing I believe is what it says. But there’s trainings, there’s specific trainings.
SHANNON MOKI
The Association of Family and Consolation Courts is an amazing, an amazing organization that both of us are a part of. They do training for parent coordinators. They have an
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
of worldwide case studies, and just the family law, journal, and all of this that’s focused on parent coordination and custody work, and just a wealth of knowledge out there, but they do a training. I got my training at Hamline University up in Minneapolis. I can’t remember. It’s
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
remember. It’s been so long. Minnesota has a lot of resources, so it’s nice having Minnesota.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
But if you see both her professional training, but I’d also often refer families to their website because they have great parent resources, and tons of information. I think it’s a FCC net.org, if I remember right.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
So that’s a great resource for people. I also tell people who are interested, whether it’s attorneys or therapists or whatever profession reach out to one of us, we’re all, we all want to share these cases. So reach out to us.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
It takes a unique personality. I think in experiences to do this work, but like Shannon said, we’re not competitive. We want to bring people into the field. It is such a valuable service, and they really think the more people we can get into it, the more families that we can help. And we have great attorneys these days who are open to the process and understand its place in the field. So I feel
SHANNON MOKI
so long.
SHANNON MOKI
like the judges are also understanding it more than historically. In the past, maybe a pastor or a therapist or somebody say, well, I’ll do parent court use them, but they really don’t know what it was. So the statutes and just having more clarity and what it really is and what the
SHANNON MOKI
But yes, I have people shadow quite a bit. Anybody that’s interested, I am very open to law students, third year law students have to shadow for mediation. And I’m completely open to people shadowing or teaching them about the process.
SHANNON MOKI
Because I think that if people are interested in it, I would say some of the best skills to have are to have an understanding of mental health and child development and family law, but also to be assertive, to really be focused on what’s best, not to be easily manipulated, and just to
SHANNON MOKI
and on solutions and helping the family as much as you can. And I think optimism is really important. I think if we don’t believe in them, they’re not going to believe in themselves. Of course. I think we have to be optimistic that things can improve because sometimes nobody is optimistic. You know, sometimes they don’t have anybody in their corner to say we can make this
EMILY LEARING
EMILY LEARING
So if anybody is interested in getting in contact with a parent coordinator, you did say that the state has a listing of that. And I can put a link to that in our show notes below this when we put it on the website. In terms of reaching out to you, do they just send an email? Do they call? How do they get started with the process? And is it like, or is it the attorney has to give them the order they have to have their order in place or stipulation in place before they reach out to you? How does
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Yeah. As Shana said earlier, we want a court order because then it gives us the guidelines, kind of how what I was talking about before is the back end to enforce our directives and recommendations. So the majority of cases, I’ve taken a couple where the people come to me together and say we really want to do this.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
And they’re both in agreement and they’re really close together. Like I said, kind of those perfect world cases, but they’re few and far between. So most of these people would be involved in the legal process and have attorney involved so we would want it included in the order.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Often, not often, but the attorneys or a judge spying off on an order putting me as the PC in a case. And then I don’t hear from them because we don’t know if we don’t receive it or if they don’t reach out.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
once in a And then they’ll contact me with their first emergency. And I’ll say, no, we can’t jump in at an emergency.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
We have to have that initial meeting. We need to do things in order.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
I will I can’t make an on the spot decision when I know nothing. And it’s always one person reaching out to where the other ones are waiting.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
So I said, you have to. And so I tried to educate attorneys. You know, if you get in order with me on the case or anybody on a case, you need to let us know and you need to tell the people to reach out and get that first appointment set up because we have to have. We don’t, at least I don’t do a ton of background information. I don’t need to hear about every conflict they’ve ever had. But we do need to have those goals and you need to have that court order and know what direction we’re going.
SHANNON MOKI
I would say to some frustrations of some current coroners is that they just get appointed without getting asked first. I very rarely get asked first. I usually just get an order sent to me and either email or mail. And I just say, please give me the contact information of the parties. And then I mail out an intro
SHANNON MOKI
may not respond for six months, which I’m okay with if they don’t have. If they feel like they need to come up with the funds and, you know, that it’s not an emergency on there. And as long as we get a background session scheduled at some point, that’s okay. If it’s overwhelming for them, they don’t have to do it like immediately. But to get a case open so I know that I’m here if you need me.
SHANNON MOKI
would like to have that summit spend like three or four years later. Yeah. And all of a sudden they’re like, Oh, you’re listed in a court order. Okay. I have nothing in guys. So I need to have some of the information. But some parent courtiers would like to be asked first if they can take it.
SHANNON MOKI
to
SHANNON MOKI
being that if the parties pay their attorneys to get this order and it says a specific parent coordinator and then if that parent courter
SHANNON MOKI
then what? Then do they have to get a new order or, you know, then we feel, you know, like we’re stocking. So I own resolutions counseling and mediation.
SHANNON MOKI
And so Rachel Cooke does also there and she does it. So sometimes it’ll say just resolutions of provider at resolutions, which I ask for me or Aaron. Or I mean, me or Rachel. So then either one of us can share, but at your office, I’m guessing you’re the only one that does parent court. Nation. Yeah. But or sometimes it’ll list a couple of us. Recently, there was one I think it said that if Aaron cannot and
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
it’s nice. If they check,
SHANNON MOKI
on who the person is to make sure they’re available and to understand the fees. Because some fees can be vastly different. You know, there are providers maybe in Northern Iowa or Minnesota and some of the fees are very different. And you’re the person to share.
SPEAKER_03
EMILY LEARING
Well, I don’t know that the answer to this is going to be clear because I’m sure there’ll be something that you will think about later. But is there anything else that you’re really hoping to share with the community about parent court nation that we did not tackle today?
EMILY LEARING
SHANNON MOKI
lately, I’ve been trying to tell people I don’t want them to see it as the extension of the court battle. I want them to see it not as a scary process, but as more of a weaning out of that court process and starting fresh. And you know, sometimes you’re like, Oh, here’s another court appointed person.
SHANNON MOKI
And they just kind of assume that you’re part of the judge or the attorney kind of philosophy. And I want them to know that our goal really is to help them. It’s not to stir up conflict. We really want to find solutions so they can move forward without having to rely on us or attorneys of the court and to not view it as a scarier intimidating process.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
Yeah, I look at it more as a problem, saw the in process. And like you said, the moving on and creating a new relationship, a copier and teen relationship to you’re going to be together forever. As long as your children are alive or you’re alive.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
So you need to figure these things out and be able to adapt. I don’t want to work with you forever. And want you to learn and grow and be able to do this because your kids want you to do this. That’s what I hear from kids more than anything is we want them to stop fighting. We want them to get along. Can you please help with that? I will try. I will do my best. Yeah. So it is
SHANNON MOKI
And
SHANNON MOKI
kids want you to do this.
SHANNON MOKI
EMILY LEARING
I will do my best. Yeah. So it is your job to work yourself out of the job, basically. That’s a success for you as if you can say you guys know how to do this without high conflict. Go forth and do this on your
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
For sure. The longer we can stay out of court in the less issues, the
SHANNON MOKI
try to celebrate the small achievements, you know, if they can, if we can teach them to be parents, they are the ones that should make the decisions. It shouldn’t be us or the judge or the attorneys, they are the parents for this child and not just other 18, the rest of their lives. They have to go to the wedding together. They have to raise grandkids together and just that reality of how important, I think, generationally co-parenting has become so increasingly important. And both parents are often very
SHANNON MOKI
SHANNON MOKI
down. These parents love their children. They just need to learn the right way of protecting their children of what’s going on. be forward. Is their child can be a happy little successful person?
EMILY LEARING
Well, I started out this conversation today saying that we were going to be talking about both parent coordination and custody
EMILY LEARING
on the time that we’ve talked today, we’re going to do two parts of our podcast here. So we’re going to end this one and then we’ll do a part two with Shana and Erin talking about custody evaluations. You said you named your practice Shana, but go ahead and give people a contact information for how they can reach out to you.
SHANNON MOKI
on Sioux Falls. It’s resolutions, counseling and mediation. However, I do work all across the state. All of us parent quarters do work all across the state just so you know with Zoom and
SHANNON MOKI
to help the small parts of South Dakota that can’t get the help. You know, that don’t have providers and so all of us are really willing
SHANNON MOKI
out as much as we can. So my website’s SDresolutions.com and my contact information is there. They can email emails probably the best way to get hold of me. Shana at SDresolutions.com. Perfect. And
SHANNON MOKI
you?
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
in private practice with a group called Integrative Wellness here in Sioux Falls and also like Shana said, we have one good thing about COVID. I say is that it helped us learn these services of doing things through video and virtual. So yeah, we do.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
really, we didn’t really touch on this too much, but very rarely in a case do we need person to person. Usually in the beginning, sometimes they’ll say if we cannot make a resolution through various emails, then we have to sit down. But a lot of it is through email, phone calls, video.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
people don’t have to be here to do it. But anyways, Integrative Wellness is my office. You can look it up on the website.
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
like Shana said, emails usually the easiest to I try to model for my clients and set very firm limits on communication and not drink the weekend, not at night. I think one thing that we need to help people with is to know that not everything most things don’t need an immediate response. I think that’s one problem with our younger generations as well. I
ERIN NIELSEN OGDAHL
I teach my kids, nope, they’re not going to respond immediately. That’s okay. That’s okay. That’s good. So work on that as well. But yeah, email and just reach out if you have questions either for yourself or if it’s something that you’re interested in getting involved in as a professional as
SPEAKER_03
okay. That’s okay.
SHANNON MOKI
SPEAKER_03
SHANNON MOKI
EMILY LEARING
Perfect. Well, I want to thank you to you for this conversation because even though I was aware of what parent coordination was, there was a lot that I did not know about. So as a therapist who had some information, I got more.
EMILY LEARING
so I imagined that parents who are listening today are learning a lot of information. So thank you so much for being here. And to our listeners, thank you for joining us today for our conversation on parent coordination.
EMILY LEARING
you enjoyed our discussion today or have a follow up question, please feel free to leave a comment below. Do remember though that the comment section is a public setting. So if your comment is a question about your desire to get yourself set up a therapy for your child or more, you know, more questions specific to your particular situation, either contact Shane or Aaron if you have those questions for them or contact our office at 605 275 0009 extension one or info at Sioux Falls counseling.com
EMILY LEARING
and you can talk with our administrative team. Thank you so much for listening
SPEAKER_03
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